Note: if this got sent twice, sorry about that. It didn't seem to go the
first time.
I've made a teeny-tiny edit or two also, but not worth re-reading if this is
a double post.

John

In a message dated 12/11/99 9:53:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,

<< I should have opened with "We need help from all you midwest (
within 150 miles of Chicago) Mapugers for a little Email campaign."
But, the big problem is Mayor Daley's plans to light the facade of the
downtown high-rises with high- power floodlights all year.

As far as your comment,
"...just providing personal commentary, regurgitation of a copyrighted
news story presumably without permission, and an activist appeal to our
members."
The author was clearly accredited at the start of the article, and
"Email this story to a friend" was stated in the last sentence.

See for yourself.


http://chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/article/0,2669,SAV-9912100007,FF.ht
ml

Maybe you did not read the whole article, or perhaps you could not see,
with your elitist nose up in the air! >>

I did read your entire post. It appeared that the "email this to all your
friends" came from you, not the author. Still not having gone to the link to
check your source, I'm still not sure if he wrote that last line or you did,
due to its placement at the end of both the copied article and your post. In
fact, I don't care which one it came from. MAPUG is a global, privately
administered list with a stated topic. Neither redistributing copyrighted
news stories nor being part of an email campaign to a mayor are on topic.
One creates legal liability and the other is simply discouraged.

Giving credit to an author does not make it OK to infringe their copyright.
I assume that Chicago newspapers are capable of enforcing their legal rights
to the extent that (semi?) innocent archive administrators and I could
actually wind up paying money to lawyers because of your mistake. I think it
entirely reasonable to insist that NO copyrighted stories be posted to the
list without written consent of both the copyright owner and myself.

I see nothing elitist or egotistical about publicly begging subscribers to
adhere to the law: lawyers cost money which I'd rather spend on other things.
Optical things. Some of which might make you think I'm an elitist :-)

The other thread you mentioned regarding commentary on a national TV
commercial (that's television, not TeleVue!!) was certainly also off-topic.
But it wasn't huge in length, it wasn't as local in nature, and it didn't
contain anything I might wind up having to pay a lawyer for. I don't
prohibit ALL off-topic posting, and we go through cycles of having too much
or too little from time to time. Too much, and people quit the list from all
the noise. Too little, and people feel stifled and don't get a sense of
community.

Many thanks to those who have voiced private or public support for keeping
the list on topic and/or supporting my right to make judgment calls.
Someone's got to, and it happens to be me. If you want to call that a
pecking order, I suppose you're right <g>

It's impossible to keep 1200 people all happy at the same time on all issues,
but luckily dissent doesn't cause me any lost sleep or ulcers. Nor is it
likely to change my mind on judgment calls.

I draw relatively few lines in the sand, and your original post crossed at
least two and possibly four (very long OT post, serious copyright violation;
maybe also too local an issue for OT posting, maybe also too-political
content) and your second post possibly crossed another (flaming bordering on
a personal attack) but seeing as it was against me, I'll charitably count
that one as open/honest feedback rather than an attack. Judging from your "I
bet you don't have the guts to post this publicly" when in fact you had
already done so, perhaps you had meant to send that second one privately.
I'm glad the reply button posted it for you, as I prefer to post my own
thoughts and not those of others for them.

Anyway, I sympathize with your plight in Chicago but my first priority and
obligation is to keep the list running smoothly, which isn't always a certain
outcome.

John
MAPUG administrator

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