Leroy,
I definitely agree with your interpretation of the 'spirit' of the Hershel
club. While it is not forbidden to use 'goto' technology, it is recommended
and encouraged for people to use the club as an obsrving challenge - and the
most challenging way would be to star-hop the whole list.

Being an Lx200 owner at the time I started the program, and wanting to use
my scope, I did not take the full 'challenge' - I used the goto. However, I
did view every object and wrote complete observations, verified with not
only the scope, but with Uranometria and/or Guide software on my laptop.
Being fairly new to the skies (now a 5 year scope owner) I felt that the
challenge of using my lx200 to star-hop would have been too much.

Now however, I find myself reversing some of those thoughts and I am halfway
through the Messier club - using the Lx200, but with full manual control (no
goto, power OFF), star-hopping the entire way. Kind of fun actually, but I
think the rest of my astronomy club has more fun with it than I do as they
can tease me now about doing things'old fashioned way' and talk about how I
have 'come to my senses'!

Its all in good fun with my club, however, I have also encountered the bias
that you refer to. I really don't understand it though. Except for the
slewing noise, I am not bothering anyone doing it my way (with an Lx200). I
am not forcing anyone to look through my eyepieces at objects that 'weren't
found properly'. Its like putting your nose up at the great tasting potato
salad that someone brought to the picnic - all because they drove there in a
Mercedes instead of walking the whole way. To each their own I guess.

Anyway, I digress. Good luck on the rest of your Herschel list (however you
decide tro find them!)

Anthony J. Kroes
Neville Public Museum Astronomical Society
Green Bay, WI



> -----Original Message-----
> Leroy Guatney
> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 7:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [M]: FIELD command
>
>
> Hi Anthony,
>
> You are quite correct. My statement below included a bias that
> was introduced
> into my thinking by a member of my astronomy club who
> mentioned something to that effect. I just checked the A.L.
> observing clubs
> web site and the rules only mention "observe".
>
> However, I would ask you to consider a possible interpretation.
> On their web
> page above the text you cite, they establish the context (I won't quote
> because I am trying to establish a notion) that the Herschels are
> a follow-on to the Messier club, which as you point out forbids certain
> technologies. They suggest that the Herschel club is for "advanced"
> observers, with one possible meaning you have already done the Messiers.
>
> I would argue that they leave to the individual observer to decide for
> themselves *how* they approach it, like the parents giving the teenager a
> little lee-way hoping they will make the "right" decision.
>
> Now I am the *last* person you will ever hear tell *anyone* just how they
> should observe, and since letting people know that I had ordered
> an LX200 a
> month-and-a-half ago, I have certainly learned of a lot of snobbish
> bias toward LX200 owners (mostly because it brings a lot of
> people into the
> hobby a *lot* faster than if they had those little cheapie telescopes that
> were mostly good for nothing when we started), I do think the Herschel I
> program is in this spirit (Whew, record length paragraphic sentence!).
>
> Leroy Guatney
> Honorary Messier Certificate #404
> 126 Herschels and counting ...
> (I fumbled that 120 earlier, it should have said 126)
> http://www.cudenver.edu/~lguatney/SCI/catalogs4.html
> (My Herschel log)
>
> > Leroy,
> > Are you sure that the Herschel I observing program is limited to
> > star-hopping only? While the Astronomical League's Messier program
> > states that "the use of an automated telescope which finds the objects
> > without effort on the part of the observer is not acceptable.", the
> > Herschel Program becomes more 'suggestive' on the subject and does not
> > implicitly rule out automated scopes or setting circles:
> >
> > "Another point of interest; all of the objects were found without the
> > aid of setting circles, but by the star-hopping method, which made the
> > task much more difficult; but it also made it much more challenging and
> > satisfying. We feel one of the most important reasons for undertaking a
> > project like this is to increase your observing skills and to attain a
> > good knowledge of the sky. Star-hopping to find these objects can serve
> > these goals very well"
> >
> > And of course the Herschel II program has 2 separate designations on the
> > certificates to specify whether you used manual methods (manual M) or
> > setting circles/computers (device-aided DA) to complete the project. DA
> > even includes automated imaging with CCD and writing your observations
> > from your images!
> >
> >
> > Anthony J. Kroes
> > 8" Lx200 f6.3
> > Herschel Club Certificate #200, 14 Jul 1999, via Lx200 Visually
> > Herschel II in progress via Lx200 & ST7E
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > Leroy Guatney
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 3:20 PM
> > > To: T. Wesley Erickson
> > > Cc: MAPUG
> > > Subject: [M]: FIELD command
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm sending this reply to the list in case my original post was
> > > misunderstood
> > > (something I would prefer not happening, but it is e-mail afterall > >
> :-).
> > >
> > > Don't get me wrong, I like the FIELD feature. In fact, I am
> > > working on the
> > > Herschel Observing program (Astronomical League) and using GOTO
> > > is a no-no to
> > > find the 400 objects. Having found two by the old-fashioned
> > > star-hopping
> > > method I have used for nearly 30 years, I found it a nice
> > > reassurance to check
> > > the FIELD after I have no doubt that I found what I want. My
> > > observing logs
> > > note this as OL-confirmed (Object Library confirmed location), so
> > > the LX200 is
> > > actually *checking* my observations as I go. :-)
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1
>

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